Opinionated Community Chat

Session Start: Tue Dec 12 19:35:27 2000

<kensplace> Thank you for coming to this chat everyone, Corin especially. Tonight's topic is the DooYoo business model

<kensplace> as there is no fixed agenda who would like to speak on this topic

<kensplace> Would any one like to pose any questions to Corin or would Corin like to start

<kensplace> yes I shall speak

<TheKnight> BlackJane was the suggester of the topic, I thought it may be worth offering him first question :)

<Blackjane> Oh yes, I was miles away there. Would you like me to speak first, then?

<kensplace> OK, if anyone else wishes to speak let me know

<Blackjane> If you can take my slow typing . . . .

<kensplace> yes BJ you have the floor, let me know when you are complete

<Blackjane> I'd just like to start by saying how much I have enjoyed the Dooyoo community over the last six months.... But less of the brown-nosing

<Blackjane> I work in the Marketing industry and have been involved in putting figures together for a couple of internet start-ups

<Blackjane> None of them ever got off the ground, but I'd be interested to know whether Dooyoo have been ...

<Blackjane> ..successful in achieving the aims of their original model in the first six months

<Corin> Getting off the ground?

<Blackjane> Never even launched - sorry

<Blackjane> That was all (for now) - although I'll have lots more to say later no doubt

<kensplace> thank you Blackjane. Would Corin like to respond to any of these points?

<Corin> In a word, yes! - I can expand if you would like

<Blackjane> Please do

<Corin> OK

<Corin> The climate at the moment is tough as hell, and the nature of these businesses is always prone to the hurricanes, however, we are OVER achieving our model

<Corin> There have been many changes from our original business plan, but this has to happen to fit our learnings over the year we have been in operation

<Corin> our ethos is to remain flexible and entrepreneurial - that way we can go with the punches

<Corin> fini

<kensplace> thank you Corin. I now pass the floor to myself

<kensplace> I would also like to reiterate Blackjanes point about enjoying DooYoo, it has been a rewarding experience in many ways

<kensplace> I realise it is still early days, but DooYoo seems to be going from strength to strength

<kensplace> I just wonder if there are any big changes planned to dooyoo, for the future, or if it more likely to grow as and when required.

<kensplace> Also are there any plans for expansion into other countries, or even into other formats (such as a dooyoo magazine etc.) or is it too early to tell?

<kensplace> that's it from me.

<kensplace> Thank you Ken.

<TheKnight> lol

<Blackjane> LOL!

<Corin> heh heh - brilliant!

<kensplace> Would Corin like to respond to any of these

<Corin> Changes - well . . .

<Corin> Ethos again - we are totally committed to making the most of any opportunities that technology and the market brings our way BUT, Community and the service of is never going to change so everything we do will be there to serve the community better

<Corin> the good news is that the investors are really pleased with us and we have their full support for the future

<Corin> Growth - We wish to grow steadily and within the realms of our capacity and profitability. Luckily we have a 76% advocacy rate and over 50% of people heard about us through recommendation (users)

<Corin> New Markets -

<Corin> New formats sorry!

<Corin> We are looking into the off-line world but not quite yet, we still have to earn credibility and this as with any 'brand' takes time and managing . . .

<Corin> also, businesses are still getting used to how to deal with online companies and their capabilities

<Corin> Next step for me would be a palm orientated service . . . look at what the palm 7 is capable of ...

<Corin> makes me quiver ... bringing our combined knowledge and experience to an off-line market would really be a revolutionary service to wherever it existed ... which brings me to the final point ...

<Corin> Countries

<Corin> For the time being we have quite enough to do managing the 5 European languages. With these 5 we have covered the majority of the connected world . . . .

<Corin> where the future takes us will be down to how well we serve what we have established already . . . personally again I would like to take up an offer we had not so long ago to go into China ; )

<kensplace> OK we have had some more requests to speak, I pass the floor over to TheKnight

<TheKnight> Thank you

<TheKnight> Well, the dooyoo business model impresses me - I see the whole range of business models in my work

<TheKnight> The thing that differentiates it for me is that it is a close to the perfect 'win-win' scenario as I have seen

<TheKnight> We get to share our experience and be rewarded for it - Dooyoo gets prime and valuable content that draws more people and advertisers can pay dooyoo to show their wares to the large and growing community.

<TheKnight> More, there is great potential for growth and new fresh developments

<TheKnight> The 'core' of dooyoo is very impressive, with a genuine commitment and interest that is instantly visible, setting it apart from Ciao and Epinions etc.

<TheKnight> In short, its strength is that it is genuine, that it is not just about "opportunities to make money"

<TheKnight> not for the devoted users past the initial period and not for dooyoo themselves

<TheKnight> its something real

<Corin> spot on

<kensplace> Over to Corin for any comments

<Corin> Very swiftly, we all work very hard to do just that and I am so glad that you see it . . we face much scepticism from some areas and I wish it weren't so but that is what we are all about

<Corin> honesty, integrity and service

<kensplace> I now pass the floor to MykReeve

<MykReeve> I would like to say that I am really enjoying the dooyoo experience, and as TheKnight says, the community sense here is second-to-none. My question is just a minor one...

<MykReeve> This is just for my own curiosity. Since it's possible to earn revenue from referral schemes with online retailers, does dooyoo plan to use systems like this for making additional revenue in future? (Or dooyoo already...?) If so, are there any plans for adding some sort of price comparison system to the site, so a user can see where is the cheapest place to buy a book or CD that they've just read reviews of?

<kensplace> Any comments Corin?

<Corin> Our 'shopping mall' at the moment is really very limited . . and we are soon to change it to offer deep links to a democratically selected selection of retailers

<Corin> we truly believe that we can offer users the best route to satisfaction. We are going to be the first genuine 'value' comparison technology

<Corin> Price comparison is tough to do well, we wish to show so much more than just a price, after all a price is only comparable to a commodity . . . .

<Corin> we have a 2nd gen system shopping solution in Germany that you should have a look at as a basic guide to where we will be in 6 months.

<Corin> Babel fish does a cool translation job . . . .

<kensplace> I now pass the floor to ScotGirl

<ScotGirl> Just a quickie Corin (oooeerrr!). How is the number of opinions posted to date doing against your projections - higher, lower or on-target? or none of my business ;)

<kensplace> Back to Corin for any comments.

<Corin> Under target - but we have been as cut-throat as possible with our quality . . . . (don't groan) . . . wait for it . . . . .

<Corin> we have eventually found a policewoman to fill Emma's boots and then some . . ! ! ! ! !

<Corin> The opinion count is only marginally under though.

<kensplace> The floor now passes to Avitally

<avitallly> a couple of things if that's okay

<avitallly> first How are the "reads" working out

<avitallly> Many people read a lot as they write they think that is a good way to use the site and in many ways it is

<avitallly> But if everyone reads as much as/more than they write just for the sake of it is that not gonna cost Dooyoo an awful lot of money?

<avitallly> Second point

<avitallly> Some of the areas in Dooyoo are not so much product based particularly speakers corner but many people enjoy reading and writing in these areas

<avitallly> can you use this strength, rather than seeing it as an "extra?"

<avitallly> Perhaps with advertising I dunno, like writtenbyme or somet'

<Corin> Thanks Avitally, nice questions

<Corin> Reads are working out just fine in some ways . . . there is always going to be abuse because we are essentially honest and will always have people taking the mick to differing levels

<Corin> but it will not stop us from operating because we are committed to our writers . . it does cost us a lot but we are keeping the big picture in mind . . .

<Corin> funnily enough, as soon as we cut the 'write miles' the quality improved and keeps on doing so and the impressions have stayed stable

<Corin> On to speakers corner

<Corin> We have a delicate balance with content. Yes, speakers corner is not about products or services but does help us all for the following reasons

<Corin> Dooyoo is about understanding where we all come from and speakers corner offers us the chance to estimate each other in a real world context

<Corin> looking at profiles really helps us benchmark who we are dealing with. Ultimately understanding helps validate each other and our opinions

<Corin> secondly

<Corin> we would like to continue with this content because the government read speakers corner and if more people opinionated we could become a force to help them make better decisions (one day ;) )

<Corin> Finally I have a great deal of respect for written by me and might start to write there myself if I ever get a moment to myself!

<Corin> I hope that covers it?

<avital> cheers

<kensplace> The floor now passes to Thanatos, who was having computer/isp problems earlier

<thanatos> I've almost forgotten what I was going to say because I keep getting booted off, but here goes.

<thanatos> OK. People have been mentioning non product opinions as if they are different to normal ones.

<thanatos> I think it's still possible to use them to advertise, such as with the search boxes mentioned earlier.

<thanatos> As an example - 'worried about mobile phone safety? Search Amazon.co.uk for books on the subject.'

<kensplace> Over to Corin for any comments.

<Corin> The focus for new users is a message that we have to consider very carefully. We are very much Product and Service orientated at our core

<Corin> and Dooyoo is about his PREDOMINANTLY . . . however there is more to life eh? and this is the balancing act that I am toying with for the launch of our redesign. I would like to strengthen both areas by giving them their own identity . . . both are 'VU' ;)

<kensplace> The floor now passes back to Blackjane.

<Blackjane> It is interesting that there are still less than 10,000 'proper' members

<Blackjane> This 'seems' quite small, although without having insight into the Dooyoo model, it's probably best not to comment on this any more

<Blackjane> As for the the cost of recruiting customers - which is what we are (effectively) It appears to be quite expensive

<Blackjane> I have earned about £180 to date - TA very much.

<Blackjane> In customer recruitment terms that is expensive, and will prove to be more expensive as time goes on.

<Blackjane> I work for a mail order company and typically it costs us £25 on average to recruit each customer.

<Blackjane> However, we then obtain average sales of almost £100 per active customer per annum to pay for these initial recruitment costs.

<Blackjane> Surely Dooyoo will struggle to get their investment back without significantly more advertising opportunities

<Blackjane> I also had something to say on non-member reads, but will save that for later. Fini.

<kensplace> OK, would Corin like to comment on this, and then would any one else like to comment

<Corin> The magical 10,000 user question. Our 'users' are in fact writers and we do not have 10,000 users who have written an opinion yet ... but we do have a great deal more than 10,000 users!

<Corin> Many of these like to rate only and have joined to get the e-mail

<Corin> we know there are accounts set up by people who rate their own opinions but really they are very much in the minority and we knock them out - their behaviour is very easy to spot, especially with your help.

<Corin> If you would like to come and see the sacred stats screen and sign an NDA I will very happily show you ; )

<Blackjane> What is an NDA?

* kensplace Non Disclosure Agreement

<Corin> User Acquisition is mine and Pablo's area . . and we are tight as ...

<Corin> Our central cost is our wonderful dooyoo 'family'

<Corin> we consider good customer service our best marketing tool.

<Corin> as I said earlier, 50% of our active users joined down to word of mouth - companies like Google have never spent a penny on acquisition and look where they are.

<TheKnight> er... Google paid 3 cents per click actually but that's a side issue :)

<Corin> 76% of people advocate dooyoo - a fact that genuinely made me close to tears!

<Corin> we DO spend money on acquiring users but at never more than £1.25 . . . we are only 7 months old and we will make our money back in time to come, if we continue as we are now

<Corin> Dooyoo is not a retailer, but an infomediary . . . just what the web is best at - supplying information

<Corin> oops - sorry for the Google mistake TK!

<Corin> hope that covers it ... ?

<Blackjane> How is the £1.25 calculated/derived?

<Corin> well amazon pay on average $25 so we halved it and divided by 10 ; )

<Blackjane> No, I meant is that what is actually paid out so far, or anticipated to be paid out?

<TheKnight> Its a ceiling I believe

<Blackjane> OK

<Necropolis> Isn't half of $25 divided by 10 = $1.25 therefore 89p?

<Blackjane> LOL!

<Corin> We put aside a six figure sum at the beginning to deal with rewards and the 2 do not have anything to do with each other

<TheKnight> lol Ned

<Corin> LOL! Rumbled!

<kensplace> rotfl

<Blackjane> So less than £10 per 'proper' member

<Corin> exactly . . .

<Blackjane> OK

<Corin> we very much like to spend money on performance . .

<Corin> there are very few companies who do performance related marketing . . .

<Blackjane> Why are the two kept separate?

<Corin> Well there is no calculation between CPA and the money paid to that user because all users are so different

<Blackjane> Designated as 'ongoing promotion costs' rather than recruitment costs?

* Blackjane apologises for labouring the point

<Corin> Yes indeed BJ . . but paradoxically based upon a CPA basis . . . weird I know

<Corin> no worries

<Blackjane> OK - I'll shut up now ;-)

<Corin> we could carry on via mail if you would like . .

<kensplace> Would any one like to comment on the previous comments before I pass the floor to Myk?

<TheKnight> aye

<kensplace> Go ahead TK

<TheKnight> well, I'd like of course to say that the earnings are not the same as CPA

<TheKnight> consider them rather as profit-share

<TheKnight> or at least, that's what they will be long-term

<Blackjane> Assuming there are some profits to be shared ;-)

<TheKnight> Opinions written are paid for in page views and thus advertising as well as providing the content that actually makes dooyoo what it is

<Corin> Here we go ... ;)

<Corin> It is a very delicate formula

<TheKnight> all other profit and revenue opportunities flow or arise from having a member base too, so yes, profit share is the way to see the payments

<Corin> A good opinion is after all, an investment!

<Blackjane> That's one way to look at it . . .

<TheKnight> The only trick is to raise the profit level to meet the demands of the sharing :)

<Corin> More questions?

<kensplace> Floor for myk

<MykReeve> It's a minor point, but related to what you were saying earlier about separating "product" and "non-product" opinions. Recently, the "movie directors" category was dropped from dooyoo for not being a "product" category. However, since the "authors" category has been retained, this seems an odd dichotomy. Surely, an opinion on a movie director can influence people's purchasing, since it is bound to include the titles of the director's films?

<MykReeve> Sorry if this is too specific an issue to comment on in a chat like this, but I was just curious... and I know that TJ-Mackey and Silent Bob were both a bit peeved to have their (crowned) opinions deleted...

<TheKnight> I'd make that a specific question in the suggestions forum Myk, where the cat manager involved can comment perhaps

<Corin> One sec - this is a strange one ... I personally asked for directors to be removed

<Corin> Cath went ahead and did the section without my veto (bad move) and my priorities are very different at the moment

<Corin> Most items have an intrinsic cost and with our increasing experience we can get pretty accurate projections

<Corin> the Movie cat is very popular but I do not want it to overheat

<Corin> Movie directors would go through the roof

<Corin> when we can link their films into their profile, we will do it.

<Corin> we have developed some new sexiness with regards to how we can treat the descriptions and the content therein

<Corin> sorted?

<MykReeve> OK, thanks a lot, Corin - it's good to have a straight answer for SB & TJ... Sorry to everyone else for asking on such a specific issue!

<Necropolis> I'm glad you did Myk

<kensplace> OK, the floor is open to general questions about earlier questions or answers

<kensplace> go ahead BJ

<Necropolis> Can I say there were 20,313 members and 95,128 opinions on DooYoo as of 8:47pm this evening?

<kensplace> you can indeed Nec

<Blackjane> Why don't Dooyoo pay for non-member reads and are there plans too (kind of related?)

<Corin> Slowly please . .

<Corin> Nec - where did you get that??

<kensplace> I would imagine from a URL, but URLs numbers do not have to be in sequence.

<Necropolis> From the DooYoo search engine

<Necropolis> It gives a total at the bottom

<Corin> well firstly it is wrong . . . but I am still intrigued

<TheKnight> that will probably include all locked accounts etc. too Ned

<Necropolis> Yes, I agree it is members not users

<kensplace> also accounts with zero ops

<Corin> However, not too far off . . . .

<Necropolis> But if you do a wildcard search it returns everything

<TheKnight> smart thinking

<Necropolis> I aim to impress

<Corin> *impressed*

<TheKnight> Had you realised Ciao could do that to you too Corin? :)

<Corin> am I concerned?

<TheKnight> lol

<Necropolis> Hmm, I should apply for a job at Ciao methinks

<Corin> feel free ... LOL

<Corin> BJ - money for non member reads . . .

<TheKnight> lol Ciao stats - 30,000 member accounts, 200,000 opinions, 2 reads :)

<ScotGirl> lol

<Corin> lol ... qwalidy

<Necropolis> I hope my spy toys aren't going to get taken away now

* Blackjane waits patiently

<Corin> The non member reads could be way too easy to rig ... we would be out of business in a week!

<kensplce> ken sent his apologies for being disconnected

<Corin> however ... we are looking to allow writers to profit from how well they help others make their better decisions

<TheKnight> true Corin, I think its better to have them 'accountable'

<Corin> in ways . .

<Corin> If this were altruistic . . . . my god I would love it!

<Corin> BTW, Jonti is frowning and gnashing at the computer

<Corin> thanks NEC!

<TheKnight> lol

<Corin> ha ha ha he is off on one now!

<TheKnight> Jonti is the technical bod - and the one most responsible for the search engine features

<Corin> Woah!

<Necropolis> I should have asked for money before revealing that then shouldn't I

<TheKnight> Yes, need an agent? :)

<Corin> Nec, will love and admiration suffice?

<Necropolis> I'll have to ask the rent collector 8-)

<kensplace> ok sorry folks my isp was playing up again.

<ScotGirl> Corin, are there any plans to increase the rewards for referrals? It seems hardly worth it at present (yeah I know we all want more members etc., but not everyone cares about that)

<TheKnight> Seriously Nec, well done, that's exactly the kind of 'user testing' that communities can do that companies will always miss

<Corin> Well, I sort of agree ... ScotGirl ... will put it in my book to bring up this weekend at the European summit!

<ScotGirl> thanks

<Corin> jonti is now calming down ...

<kensplace> Are there any more questions, or shall we all relax now?

<Corin> I have one

<kensplace> go ahead Corin.

<Corin> Do you like 'make better decisions'?

<TheKnight> Mostly, yes

<kensplace> Its OK yes.

<TheKnight> its a good slogan, but not as Search Engine friendly as I'd like of course :)

<MykReeve> Yeah, I think I like it.

<thanatos> are you thinking of changing it?

<caro> Yes, I think so

<jillmurphy> I stuck it in my last opinion. I like it.

<Corin> :) Good!

<TheKnight> I think it help focus the idea of what is wanted in an op

<ScotGirl> 'make informed decisions' - that would take in speakers corner too!!

<MykReeve> It's better than "make decisions better" or "better decisions make" (which sounds a bit Yoda-esque)

<thanatos> why not run a competition to come up with a better one?

<Blackjane> 1000 miles to the winner

<Corin> We have interactive Yoda in the office! He is great!

<Corin> thantos ... cheers

<TheKnight> And they have Jossie, who's almost as good :)

<Corin> The whole of Europe wants to take the slogan on - check out the I-talians

<TheKnight> I-talians and E-gyptians - Internet races

<Corin> exactly!

<MykReeve> "il punto di vista dei consumatori" - not very snappy.

<Corin> I also have some more news.

<kensplace> We wait with baited breath ...

<Corin> Not snappy at all, but they are BIG in Italy!

<Corin> the community is currently on strike though ; (

<Blackjane> On strike?

<Corin> Yep ... the Italians are a very passionate community

<Corin> The SPEED issue

<TheKnight> What are the grounds for their dispute???

<MykReeve> Now you don't want to be telling us this... surely...

<TheKnight> they want you to team up with ferrari

<Corin> We are really close to a solution with the speed - new front end server technology and in 4 months we will have a new backend ...

<Corin> baited breath

<TheKnight> Do they not have the k2f program there?

<Corin> The Italians are in a huff because they fired one of the 'beautiful' community manageresses! HA HA HA

<TheKnight> lol

<jillmurphy> Same opinion on the front page for three hours now Corin!

<MykReeve> I was about to mention that, Jill!

<TheKnight> I like Clair (office manager) but shhhhh!

<caro> Yes, I'd noticed that too Jill!

<jillmurphy> Sorry ;-)

<Corin> We had a servlet wobble earlier ... sorry

<thanatos> person who wrote that opmust be celebrating!

<TheKnight> is there a diet plan for that - the servlet wobble diet?

<Corin> luck shines on those who opinionate!

<Blackjane> Yes - 35 ppl have read it!

<Corin> doh!

<jillmurphy> rofl

<hugon> why can that never happen to me?

<Corin> Hugon . . . . so sorry

<Blackjane> They have trebled their reads overnight (so to speak)

<thanatos> 35 - that's as many as on some crowns!

<Corin> I'll delete it!

<Corin> sorted!

<kensplace> I missed this, what's everyone on about?

<TheKnight> I'm the guy who only got a couple of hours in the hall of fame - never happen to me :)

<thanatos> the op?

<jillmurphy> Nooo

<hugon> must try harder to post when server playing up!

<jillmurphy> Let them have a moment of glory.

<Blackjane> But, you're not bitter, TK! (LOL)

<thanatos> ken - same op on front page for 3 hours.

<TheKnight> hehehe

<jillmurphy> tee hee

<kensplace> lol, lucky devil

<TheKnight> I was amazed to get there at all BJ

<Corin> TK, your opinions would put us out of business unless we put the secret dooyoo supressor on them - solve that one Nec!

<Corin> uhhh ... joke?

<TheKnight> lol - I hope not, most of them are about us members better helping your business

<Corin> OK - humble as anything now ...

<kensplace> Actually I think it would be good if dooyoo allocated a *minimum* amount of time for ops to stay on main page.

<Necropolis> Sorry, was looking at Euro DooYoos

<Blackjane> Do things ever work like that?

<TheKnight> hard tho Ken, or it would have to 'skip' some

<thanatos> wouldn't that make a HUGE backlog when lots of ops got submitted?

<Corin> we do ... say if we have 10 ops in the hour and none the next, it rotates them . . . .

<jillmurphy> I've looked on the French site a bit.

<Corin> what dooyoo think?

<Necropolis> Italy/Spain seem to have good and bad ops on the front rather than latest ops

<kensplace> I think the backlog could be spread over time

<caro> *still* the same op on the front page!

<Necropolis> I wonder about those in the middle

<kensplace> I looked at the .de site the other day

<Corin> and?

<Necropolis> I wish I could speak the languages. It would make so much more sense then

<Corin> saw 'a' redesign

<kensplace> but as I only can read English I could not say much

<kensplace> *BUT*

<TheKnight> use Babelfish, Ned

<kensplace> did notice more front page stuff

<kensplace> and a much smaller hall of fame.

<Blackjane> Babelfish is very good

<TheKnight> Altavista have a somewhat effective page translation device called babelfish - its very handy

<kensplace> I have it on my website if anyone wants to see it in action.

<kensplace> (plug, plug plug)

<thanatos> naughty!

<kensplace> But nice, sis

<TheKnight> Oh by the way Corin, great idea on the new application - to get opinions while surfing

<Corin> Their hall of fame is for 'famous' type people ... they have a very different market - they do not celebrate their individuality as much as we do ... they will learn one day!

<Necropolis> I know. But that would be cheating. And I like the sound of Spanish. Just wish it meant something to me

<Necropolis> No WAP plans?

<Corin> TK - we have a new tool coming out like . . . . well not here ; )

<thanatos> DooYoo on WAP? Sounds a bit of a waste of time to me Nec (but that's just MY opinion<g>)

<TheKnight> why not

<Necropolis> WAP is a transitionary technology but it will be around for sometime

<thanatos> I can't see many people wanting to use DooYoo on their phones.

<TheKnight> spot a product you like while shopping and use your wap phone to check it out to be sure

<thanatos> At the moment, WAP is pretty bad to use.

<Corin> WAP ... I am looking more to the next Gen ... the telcos are bastards to do business with - goes a bit like 'give us your community and pay us too ... N E V E R !!

<Necropolis> Sky's digital teletext launched recently and uses WAP to access sky.com

<TheKnight> Worthwhile with expensive purchases

<thanatos> I suppose if you just had the star ratings.....

<thanatos> You could search for a product, and just see how many recommend it.

<thanatos> Other than that, I think it's too cumbersome for WAP right now (just right now)

<Necropolis> When shopping the ability to get abstracts, star ratings etc. would be v useful

<Corin> Nice idea

<TheKnight> better still to get an ad on all those new pay-phone internet devices that are springing up in shopping centres tho - Corin?

<Corin> we have that in German . .. it is very popular

<Necropolis> People who write top rated ops could be asked to do mini versions for WAP

<Corin> but not perfect

<kensplace> Actually DooYoo could advertise itself on Wap phones.

<Corin> we do have short ops coming soon . . .

<Corin> Advertise?

<ScotGirl> I need to waffle nec - I'm not capable of a mini-version ;)

<Necropolis> Well if it means less people see you Liz all the better hehe

<kensplace> Yes, mailshots on Wap, also on text messages are effective

<Corin> We have all new question sets . . . . how do we ask everyone to change their old ops?

<kensplace> To increase DooYoo awareness

<thanatos> mobile spam? NOOO!

<Necropolis> Don't know what they are Ken but I don't like the sound of them

<kensplace> I have been spammed on mobile, i was quite chuffed!

<Necropolis> If you junk SMS me I will hunt you down and do a wildcard search on you

<kensplace> Its still new enough to be a novelty

<thanatos> Perhaps you could offer people bonuses if they change their ops by XYZ date, then say after that they will be pulled, Corin.

<Corin> we have loads of numbers on SMS service but we have our pride!

<jillmurphy> tee hee

<Corin> Thantos - nice idea - thanks

<TheKnight> remind them that an update brings it back to the top of their list and gets it fresh reads :)

* ScotGirl sends a delayed :P to necropolis

<jillmurphy> Euch I don't want to do that.

<Necropolis> Morning Liz!

<jillmurphy> I'm gonna rebel.

<kensplace> EMAIL the old ops to people and allow them to email the altered one back.

<Necropolis> What ops will need rewriting?

<TheKnight> Not surprised Jill, so much churning to fix lol

* imright wakes up

<thanatos> Why is email better? ken?

<jillmurphy> Just the question sets Ned.

* jillmurphy slaps TheKnight about a bit with a smelly, wet, large trout.

<TheKnight> hehehe

<Corin> : )

<Necropolis> Erm, am I missing something? 'question sets'?

<kensplace> Its is more likelly that (speaking for me) that I would sit and change the op then and there

<Corin> It is just the Q-sets . . . . they are great now . . .

<kensplace> if it was not in front of me, i may put it of till later, and forget.

<Corin> we need the updates for our comparison engine

<kensplace> plus not everyone has free net access.

<kensplace> Q-sets?

<TheKnight> Question sets are those radio buttons etc at the end of ops

<Necropolis> Oh, the extra bits with the drop down boxes.

<kensplace> ok

<jillmurphy> Well I don't want to change the order of all my opinions. A lot I don't want to.

<jillmurphy> Really.

<Necropolis> Jill has a good point

<thanatos> I would be more inclined to do it if a link was given to me to click and change like a survey, and also if I were offered a small no of miles to doo it. (not that I'm greedy or anything!)

<kensplace> I would love to be able to alter the order, but have control over it

<jillmurphy> I will start a sit in.

<Necropolis> Would be nice if there was a question set only template

<Necropolis> So that the ops are not actually edited

<jillmurphy> I'd do that.

<Corin> it is a pain . . . . we will get there though

<Corin> Jill :) ; ) :)

<caro> Presumably if you started at the bottom of your list and did them all at once,

<jillmurphy> You can just delete all my old ones Corin. I don't mind. It would be a relief.

<caro> order would be unchanged?

<Necropolis> I wouldn't care about payment just for that, scare people with deletion and they will do it

<TheKnight> It would still show as an update to the system itself tho Ned, so would rearange the order

<kensplace> But could be altered at dooyoo end tho?

<Corin> Nec - I like your style . . . . . .

<Necropolis> Well I don't know how the system works, whether the list is dynamic based on last edited date

<kensplace> so order would not have to change

<jillmurphy> Delete me. See if I care :)

<Necropolis> And whether that is a database field, but if so then it can be unchanged

<Corin> I would like to show you a letter I got today ... as an example of grief ... 1 mo

<kensplace> The chairperson Deletes Jill

<TheKnight> That's actually a fair point - I think perhaps there should be a feature/function whereby we can request the deletion of an op

<imright> Couldn't members have the option to order opinions by their preference?

<jillmurphy> Oohh, yes please.

<jillmurphy> About twenty I think.

<kensplace> yes please

<thanatos> If you threaten to delete peoples ops, but at the same time don't offer a reward, then you will look like the bad guy, and lose a lot of goodwill.

<Necropolis> And people should loose all miles for deleted ops hehe

<kensplace> And goodwill is hard to buy.

<TheKnight> perhaps a speakers corner op that got too heated, or a product op that simply is no longer relevant but we don't intend to get the latest version of the software just to update the op

<jillmurphy> I don't care.

<Necropolis> It is in the T&C though that DooYoo have the right to not delete

<kensplace> T&C , i like TLC better

<jillmurphy> I got one deleted the other day actually. Don't know which one though!

<thanatos> lol ken

<TheKnight> One that Liz Nu'd probably Jill

<Necropolis> I remember the Learning Channel too

<Necropolis> Before they cahnged it to Disc Home & Leisure

<Corin> "lol i bet ur web site is run from a shity little tramp pit of an office! no one is gonna win a prize! its bullshit! just a big con! well u can stick ur site!"

<kensplace> cool isnt is ned

<ScotGirl> I NU her on anything

<jillmurphy> No she Nu's 'em all.

<jillmurphy> I hate her.

<TheKnight> That from a mail Corin?

<Corin> yep . . . a reasonably tame one

<kensplace> Was that sent from one of my ex-bosses Corin :)

<Corin> ha ha

<TheKnight> lol Ken

<jillmurphy> Oh that's wimpy Corin. I'm not telling you mine!!

<Necropolis> I bet whoever wrote that would happily update their q-sets if asked

<jillmurphy> tee hee

<MykReeve> lol

<TheKnight> lol Nec

<Corin> yep . . . obviously going for a crown!

<jillmurphy> rofl

<TheKnight> I'd crown 'em - with a brick

<Corin> what is a tramp pit please?

<kensplace> It got ya thinking tho, so it must be at least somewhat useful.

<kensplace> Im not sure actually

<Corin> TK - : )

<TheKnight> Its a worryingly apt description of the desk next to Clair's Corin :)

<Corin> somewhat useful . . . . so much more offensive than not useful . . . it is the flippant tone . .

<TheKnight> lol

<jillmurphy> hmph

<kensplace> lol, I know I got one like that too earlier but different

<TheKnight> By the way Corin, have the prior chats been useful? The ratings discussion in particular?

<Blackjane> Marginally Useful might be a better alternative - even more belittling

<MykReeve> I like the word "barely", BJ...

<Blackjane> LOL!

<Necropolis> Wow, the Spanish HoF lets you vote on nominees

<TheKnight> I think maybe we should have the 5th rating as 'Almost literate' :)

<jillmurphy> Hello bexxie.

<kensplace> actually a valid point tk

<Blackjane> Below Not Useful?

<kensplace> hi bexxie

<Corin> The ratings chat was excellent - many of the ideas have been discussed eu wide and are being hammered out this weekend

<imright> What about a sixth that simply says 'churner'

<TheKnight> below 'delete'

<TheKnight> lol imright

<jillmurphy> You are all sooooo bitchy.

<jillmurphy> ;-)

<jillmurphy> Be nice.

<kensplace> lol imright

<Necropolis> I thought the crowns chat was very useful, especially my comments

<TheKnight> okay, I'm going to end the log

<bexxie> hello can I speak now? Or are you busy?

Session Close: Tue Dec 12 22:06:48 2000